Discussion:
Is there an "indigenous to" for Plants ?
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Thad Guidry
2018-09-22 15:52:10 UTC
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Hi Community !

Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage ?

I only see https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2341 which is
constrained for People and not Animals or Plants.

Any discussion links about this before ?

Thanks in advance !
-Thad
+ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry>
Andy Mabbett
2018-09-23 06:01:10 UTC
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Post by Thad Guidry
Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage ?
The nearest I can find is:

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P181

"taxon range map image"

and:

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1846

"distribution map"

See also:

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/30#P1846
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Thad Guidry
2018-09-23 15:06:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi Andy !

Thanks ! But, yeah both of those are not useful... because they are image
based and not DATA based.

I need a property that holds location data, so that anyone can build those
images and maps. This is WikiDATA.

Hmm, location data... so location with a qualifier for "native" or some
such ? (any precedent here ?)
But that would be flipping it around and possibly would make querying for
data more difficult by map/image builders.

-Thad
+ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry>
Post by Andy Mabbett
Post by Thad Guidry
Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage ?
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P181
"taxon range map image"
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1846
"distribution map"
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/30#P1846
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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Jan Ainali
2018-09-23 15:13:38 UTC
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Species don't care much for administrative borders so until we have the
ability to store actual geographical data there is not much to do. Sure,
for some islands or lakes it might make sense to tie it to another item but
those are special cases for a problem that should be more generally solved.

/Jan
Post by Thad Guidry
Hi Andy !
Thanks ! But, yeah both of those are not useful... because they are image
based and not DATA based.
I need a property that holds location data, so that anyone can build those
images and maps. This is WikiDATA.
Hmm, location data... so location with a qualifier for "native" or some
such ? (any precedent here ?)
But that would be flipping it around and possibly would make querying for
data more difficult by map/image builders.
-Thad
+ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry>
Post by Andy Mabbett
Post by Thad Guidry
Is there a property for "indigenous to" or "native in" for Plants usage
?
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P181
"taxon range map image"
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1846
"distribution map"
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/30#P1846
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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Nicolas VIGNERON
2018-09-23 15:24:17 UTC
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Post by Jan Ainali
Species don't care much for administrative borders so until we have the
ability to store actual geographical data there is not much to do. Sure,
for some islands or lakes it might make sense to tie it to another item but
those are special cases for a problem that should be more generally solved.
/Jan
Hi,

As a reminder, there is the possibility to « store actual geographical »
with P3896 <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P3896> (maybe not the
good property here but the datatype "geoshape" does exist and is used).

Cheers, ~nicolas
Thad Guidry
2018-09-23 15:31:28 UTC
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Ah thanks Nicolas !

And then I see it can be queried with
https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query= ??
is that correct ?

-Thad
+ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry>


On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 10:24 AM Nicolas VIGNERON <
Post by Nicolas VIGNERON
Post by Jan Ainali
Species don't care much for administrative borders so until we have the
ability to store actual geographical data there is not much to do. Sure,
for some islands or lakes it might make sense to tie it to another item but
those are special cases for a problem that should be more generally solved.
/Jan
Hi,
As a reminder, there is the possibility to « store actual geographical »
with P3896 <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P3896> (maybe not the
good property here but the datatype "geoshape" does exist and is used).
Cheers, ~nicolas
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Nicolas VIGNERON
2018-09-23 16:23:02 UTC
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Post by Thad Guidry
Ah thanks Nicolas !
No problem, this possibility is not well known so I took the chance to talk
about it.
Post by Thad Guidry
And then I see it can be queried with
https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query= ??
is that correct ?
Yes :
https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query=SELECT%20*%20WHERE%20{%0A%20%20%3Fid%20wdt%3AP131%20wd%3AQ12130%20%3B%20wdt%3AP3896%20%3Fgeo%20.%0A}
You can also query it in the usual SPARQL query service :
https://query.wikidata.org/#%23defaultView%3AMap%0ASELECT%20%2a%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fdpt%20wdt%3AP131%20wd%3AQ12130%20%3B%20wdt%3AP3896%20%3Fgeo%20.%0A%7D
(I remember a better query about elections in Germany or something, but I
can't find it again).

Cheers, ~nicolas
Laura Soito
2018-09-23 16:25:13 UTC
Permalink
Not sure if either of these would be applicable for your data, but similar
to 'Indigenous to <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2341>' for there
is a property 'Endemic to <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P183>'
that can be applied to taxon. Or more generally, there is habitat
<https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2974> which seems like it can be
used to specify geographic locations as well other places where an organism
might live (e.g. soil, within other organisms, etc).

Laura
Post by Thad Guidry
Ah thanks Nicolas !
And then I see it can be queried with
https://maps.wikimedia.org/geoshape?query= ??
is that correct ?
-Thad
+ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry>
On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 10:24 AM Nicolas VIGNERON <
Post by Nicolas VIGNERON
Post by Jan Ainali
Species don't care much for administrative borders so until we have the
ability to store actual geographical data there is not much to do. Sure,
for some islands or lakes it might make sense to tie it to another item but
those are special cases for a problem that should be more generally solved.
/Jan
Hi,
As a reminder, there is the possibility to « store actual geographical »
with P3896 <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P3896> (maybe not the
good property here but the datatype "geoshape" does exist and is used).
Cheers, ~nicolas
_______________________________________________
Wikidata mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
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Nicolas VIGNERON
2018-09-23 17:24:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Laura Soito
Not sure if either of these would be applicable for your data, but similar
to 'Indigenous to <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2341>' for
there is a property 'Endemic to
<https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P183>' that can be applied to
taxon. Or more generally, there is habitat
<https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2974> which seems like it can be
used to specify geographic locations as well other places where an organism
might live (e.g. soil, within other organisms, etc).
Laura
Thanks Laura, I was looking for P183 ('endemic to') but couldn't find it.
If there is a relevant item, it is the best property for this need (if I
understand correctly).
I did find P2974 ('habitat') but the expected value is not an area but a
type of area.

An example to be more clear: P183 would the "Sahara" and P2974 would be
"desert".
For some organisms, it can seems a bit redundant (the "Sahara" is already
indicated as a "desert") but for organism without a specific area, it's
important (for instance for a human virus, the habitat is "human" and there
is no area per se).

Cheers, ~nicolas
Thad Guidry
2018-09-23 17:39:50 UTC
Permalink
The data I am actually working with is here:
http://www.xerces.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/conserving_bb.pdf#page=29
and within
https://www.wildflower.org/collections/collection.php?collection=xerces_bumble
that use USDA Native status.

After searching the Property proposal archives (guided by Laura's
suggestions) for "indigenous" and others, I found discussion between John
Vandenberg and Felix Reimann that was sort of helpful...where they discuss
"indigenous"...

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/24#WWF_ecoregion
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/23#WWF_ecoregion_code
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/24#biome

But even John and Felix are left openly pondering the best way to capture
"native" status of Plants in Wikidata.

Which also leaves my question open about the best way / property to store
the concepts of Native Plants
(we have the opposite already being invasive to P5588
<https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P5588>

USDA defines "native" as this and with codes:
https://plants.usda.gov/faq.html#native
https://plants.usda.gov/native_status_def.html

Where you often see the codes and data used on sites such as
https://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=AGSC

How do folks openly discuss such "left open" questions with experts ? Do I
just ask John and Felix on their Talk pages ? I'd prefer a roundtable
discussion. How is that done on Wikidata ?

-Thad
+ThadGuidry <https://plus.google.com/+ThadGuidry>

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